The Following is a long debate of sorts that i had with a Christian Fundamentalist on a Sydney Morning Herald Blog. He had an odd ability to sidestep any of my questions and travel down another train of thought. As a result, i got pissed off and almost got as irrational as he did. Calls himself “G.Gibson” however i can’t help but think it could be Tony Abbott. All i will say before you read it is that HE started it – not me. Who wins? You decide.
Not all scoff at christian prophecy. One of the more powerful visions/prophecies comes from a lady pentecostal pastor from Mt. Isa QLD showing enemy partroopers coming down just north of the city and the roads clogged with people trying to escape, but they werent making it. The lady concerned, who received the vision, when she awoke she said The Lord spoke to her and simply said “TWO BABY GIRLS”. That very day two baby girls were born into her family. One two weeks late and the other the day she was due. As one event, the babies came to pass, she immediately figured that the other, the paratroopers, would also and she moved back into NSW with her whole family (even though The Lord hadnt set a date for the invasion). This revelation I sent to the Australian Defence Dept back in 1993 and received a reply from Brigadier Adrian D’Hage of public affairs saying that he had sent it onto intellegience for them to have a look at. Though the event of the paratroopers at Mt. Isa QLD has yet to happen, I still believe that the lady penetcostal pastor was given a genuine revelation of a future event. Its very frequent amongst the pentecostals…this receiving of visions about the future because they chase the Gifts of The Holy Spirit one of which is prophecy and revelations. In December, 2006 I left the Darling Downs region of QLD forever because of the number of revelations of this invader coming as far south as Byron Bay NSW. If youre thinking of moving to QLD, think again. There could be hundreds of revelations out there amongst the christian. I believe that tidal wave will hit Surfers Paradise too. Shes a very dark sinful place these days. I wouldnt even holiday there.
- Posted by: G.Gibson on July 15, 2007 8:40 AM
Ok G. Gibson. Because a group of pentecostals told you they heard the voice of god you moved out of QLD. And what about the woman from Mt ISA? How is that a bloody revelation? Surely the babies were expected as they dont gestate and pop out over a period of 2 weeks you moron! This paratrooper revelation happened prior to 1993 huh? It still hasnt happened has it? Even if this ‘vision’ had credibility there is no date given ( it may happen in 100 years from now rendering the move from QLD to NSW a farce ). G.Gibson, people such as yourself are dangerous. I bet, because you are obviously a christian of some denominaton, you speak out against fundamental islam yet you are the christian equivalent. Where is your logic and evidence for the occurance of these visions? How reliable and honest are those who say they had them? Where is the evidence for the existence of a God whether it be Zeus, Horus, Osiris, Allah or the Christian God?G.Gibson, if you can answer these questions with a valid response then PERHAPS you have the right to spread a little fear and paranoia.
- Posted by: Mohawkman on July 18, 2007 11:24 AM
You are wrong Mohawkman. A group of pentecostals did not tell me they heard from the voice of God. The revelations (visions and prophecies) are from all over the place from a period from 1975 to 1996. Some are in book form as is Pastor Jack Burrell’s WHAT WILL BECOME OF AUSTRALIA (a rare book these days but still many copies out there amongst the committed christians). They (the visions and prophecies) are all seperate from each other, given to different people at different times during this period. Not one person was connected in anyway to another. The Mt.Isa QLD paratroopers vision I got from the lady pastors daughter by tracking the daughter down. The lady pastor had already passed on to be with The Lord, so I contacted her daughter to see what she knew about the vision when I first heard there had been one. I moved out of QLD because I believe the invader will eventually own all of that State, for at least a while. No USA will be here to help in those days. God has a plan for America because of Americas sin. I wont say more here on this. Unless you want me to. Like just about all other christians I can see that the Bibles endtimes are coming soon. Jesus is speaking in Luke chapter 21 about a great increase in wars, earthquakes, famines and disease just before He gets back. Look…we are seeing these events happening right now. Its not a dream. Its Bible prophecy being fulfilled. We are also seeing the great crime mentioned in 2 Timothy chapter 3 as men degenerate into wild animnals. There are also stories in the media about the “mark” on either the right hand or forehead economy of Revelation 13:16-18 and 14:9-11 beginning to appear (we christians are forbidden to take this “mark”/microchip even if it goes global and we have to go underground. It is satan new system connected to the coming world antichrist, “the beast”). Its all happening Mohawkman. Just as the Bible said it would happen. Thats why your relationship to Jesus Christ is going to be so important. God doesnt Judge His Christ-believers like He Judges a fallen civilisation that is getting worse each day. You can join us Christians if you want to Mohawkman. We are the REAL power on earth because we have The Holy Spirit. Its not by our own strength that we are the TRUE believers… but by The Holy Spirit living inside of us. NO! other faith in all of the world has The Holy Spirit, Mohawkman. Thats why all other belief systems are false religions started by satan. Islam wants to kill to conquer. Christians just want to love and preach Jesus to this fallen world. I dont think it is extreme to leave QLD if I have collected so many revelations about an invader as far south as Byron Bay NSW. I think its wise. God bless. Love you pal. If you want a good church I recommend Assemblies of god, Christian Outreach Centres etc. Boy… the pentecostal churches sure are the liveliest churches in the land. In need? Jesus is only a prayer away. “Everyone who calls on the Name of The Lord will be saved”…Romans 10:13.
- Posted by: G. Gibson on July 18, 2007 4:22 PM
Ok, more tripe with no evidence. Once again, where do you stand on the following questions? :Where is your logic and evidence for the occurance of these visions? How reliable and honest are those individuals who say they had them? Where is the evidence for the existence of a God whether it be Zeus, Horus, Osiris, Allah or the Christian God?And WHY is your Religion the only one not to be the work of satan? How did you work that out? There are over 150 religions in this world, many of which far more peaceful histories than either Islam or Christianity. Isn’t this the exact attitude that causes disharmony, distrust and violence?As for your apocalyptic garbage regarding the ‘endtimes, keep in mind that the earth has always suffered from tidal waves, earthquakes, storms and what-have-you. There have always been violent natural events throughout the history of the earth – far more violent than in recent times. You only analyse the troubles in your time more feverently because you are here and part of it. As such, it means far more to you which amplifies your view of it.
- Posted by: Mohawkman on July 18, 2007 5:07 PM
My logic for the visions is that the endtimes are almost upon us (I gave you Luke chapter 21. Its also in Matthew chapter 24.); AND that these revelations are warnings sent to committed christians about coming events in the South Pacific region i.e. the invasion of Australia by a foreign army (probably China)…God allowing it because of the sins of the people (for what sin really is…read the Bible or click on sin). The evidence for these visions is in my collection of books written by recipients of visions and prophecies on an invader; and in the number of personal testimonies I have collected from RELIABLE christians who have also received them. I told you that the ONLY TRUE faith is Christianity because NO! other faith system has The Holy Spirit. Can you dig this Mohawkman? If you ask Jesus into your life sincerely you receive The Holy Spirit and you can feel Him Comforting you from inside. Buddha doesnt have the Holy Spirit, neither does Confuscius or Allah and his false prophet the murderer of men Mohammed or any other earthy religion or any other witchcraft incantations to a demon power. Only in Jesus is there The Holy Spirit! Christians will die for their faith in Jesus Christ (hundreds of millions of christian already have) because with The Holy Spirit they know the REAL TRUTH about the Holy Bible and God. You cannot get to God without Jesus in your life. There are two sides in the spirit world… ONLY two…God Who is Light and darkness. You dont get a third choice, though if man wants to believe unsubstantiated rubbish including evolution, karma, the tea leaves in the cup he will do it. Mans great problem is that he doesnt want to admit he is a sinner and open to Gods Judgment, which he is after death. Guilty as sin is every single man and woman on this spinning earth in space… because “all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God”…Romans 3:23. “All scripture is inspired by God”…2 Timothy 3:16. This last scripture you will realise is the truth when you invite Jesus into your life as your Saviour because you will receive THE HOLY SPIRIT! There have also been some major disasters throughout history but nothing like the Bibles endtimes events. Be patient and watch day by day as the events unfold. *A little additional: China wants to own us as NEW SOUTH CHINA and Indonesia wants to own us as SOUTH IRIAN. China today builds for the great outward march. All she had to do is get rid of the mighty US of A. She plans that too, so say some prophecies. With a little help from her buddies in Russia. The CIA knows all about these prophecies. Lets hope they pay attention. I guess you will have to just enter a relationship with Jesus Mohawkman to get to know Him further. NO OTHER FAITH SYSTEM HAS THE HOLY SPIRIT…thats the tremendous difference.
- Posted by: G.Gibson on July 18, 2007 6:30 PM
Ok, your logic for the visions is that “the endtimes are almost uopn us”. Does the Bible give a date or dates? Does the Bible mention China or Indonesia specifically? What are the Revelations based on? The New Testament was written hundereds of years after the death of the self-proclamied messiah (Jesus). Does this mean Revelations is relying on visions from a select few who walked the earth around the years 300-400AD? How reliable are any of these texts anyway? How close are they to the original texts? Are you really so naive as to believe you are reading word for word what was written almost 2000 years ago? How accurate can the information in Revelations be, given that thousands of editions have been published throughout all these years?The problem with religion at the end of the day is that it places way too much emphasis on Human beings being the centre of all existence. I hope you realise we are on the cusp of discovering life on new planets. This fact alone renders the Bible a farce. No doubt yourself and your merry band of fanatics will re-interprate Bible passages to your liking so as to “explain” any future events and occurances.You claim “No other faith system possesses the holy spirit”. Do we even have evidence a “Holy Spirit” exists? What is the basis of your claim anyway? Have you ever practiced or studied Judaism, Atheism, Greek Mythology, Buddism, Islam or any other religion? How can you be so quick to conclusion if you know nothing of these religions or their followers? You completely contradict yourself by typecasting Islam as violent and evil and then cause division and threats against these religions in the name of christianity! Do you realise how ridiculous you sound?!You call Evolution rubbish despite overwheming evidence in favour of this explanation as opposed to creationism, which progressive human thought dubunked years ago. I bet you still believe the world is flat and the world was created 4000 years ago.Some advice: Go and read the God Delusion by Richard Dawkins. open your mind to something logical, not necessarily something fictional that helps you sleep at night
- Posted by: Mohawkman on July 19, 2007 9:48 AM
Hi Mohawkman. The Bible mentions China (as clear as anyone needs to see it written down) in Revelation 9:16 and 16:12 where it speaks about a 200million man army known as the “kings from the east” crossing asia towards Israel. Lets hope no southern movement on to Australia? Click on “kings from the east”. In 1963 Mao stated (Time magazine recording) that any day he wanted to he could put 200million soldiers into the field. Indonesia isnt mentioned in the Word though a good prophecy can be found by clicking on invasion of australia david kriss. The bible is reliable when you receive Jesus as your Saviour and The Holy Spirit confirms it as truth. The evidence of the existance of The Holy Spirit is in the love, peace, joy, self-control etc that the christians display towards each other and towards those in need. There is also the periodic revivals that occur like the Laughing Revival of the mid-1990’s. There wont be any discovery of life from other planets. Its not Gods Plan to allow interference in this battle between Jesus Christ and satan here on earth. If UFOs ever appear, which I highly doubt, they will have been built by men (see The Cosmic Conspiracy by Stan Deyo…its on the net still. The New World Order has been fiddling around with UFO technology for decades. The stories of aliens on ice are a cover-up for the construction of electric flying discs as a plan to eventually present our long-lost ancestors from another world. Roswell is a lot of lies). I know all about those false eastern religions. Studied them years ago. Islam wants to kill to conquer. It has an allowance for the killing to achieve its global goals. Not so the born-again christians. We kill no one. Our focus is on The Holy Spriti and the Second Coming of jesus Christ. Evolution is total nonsense. There is no evidence. Its all theory thats why its called the Theory of Evolution. All the evidence points to a short history of man as shown in the geneologies of the Bible and in the evidence of a great global flood. I think there are over 120 cultures today that have stories in them about a global flood and a handful of survivors. Mr. Richard Dawkins is into theory. He appears also to be a little bit bitter at his “life lot under God” and this has tainted his normally clear vision. Bitter men do not make reliable sources. Seriously Mohawkman you cant expect a born-again christian of 24 years to read theory. I listen to the Holy Bible on tape all day and that feeds me and makes me happy becuase the WORD is TRUTH.
- Posted by: G.Gibson on July 19, 2007 6:42 PM
Creationism is also theory. There has never been since human existence began any proof at all that a god or gods exist or what form such a god takes. Creationism is firmly rooted in the words of one book that is almost as vague as Nostradamian quatrains. Evolutional theory has roots in logic, experimentation, hindsight and foresight. You, as a creationist, are also strictly into theory as there is no physical evidence whatsoever to show god’s existence. Christianity is a young religion. Many religions existed prior to christianity with no less credibility than Christianity. Explain why Christianity is correct and these other religions are not. Once again, your attitude to other religions and their followers completely contradicts your statement that you follow a peaceful religion. Christianity has as violent a history as Islam. The Crusades, the bombing of Abortion clinics, invasion of other countries against their will and numerous others in the name of the Christian god.If life is to be discovered on another planet, whether it be in bacterial form or else, would you renounce you faith? Or would you re-interprate Bible passages to satisfy an explanation?After Researching revelations 9:16 i found at least 12 different translations, many significantly different from each other. It mentions an army of 200 million on horseback. There is nothing to specify where they are from or when they will from. Imagine writing such a passage now in the year 2007 and having people analysing such a thing in the year 2900 and convinced it was about to occur? Ridiculous.
Revelations 16:12 mentions “making way for the kings of the east” but that is all. It does not mention a threat from the east at all. In the context, i really struggle to find anything close to concrete evidence that points to your claims. Another case of blinkered interpretation to achieve an outcome.Your arguement for the Bible being reliable is unbearably weak G.Gibson. Perhaps you should remember how different communications were prior to last century, particularly that Church -induced intellectual ‘coma’ that we call the middle ages. Communication was relied upon by different verbal and written word methods, with each storyteller having a bias one way or another. As for Dawkins, he is simply expressing his perspective. he believes, as i do, that a key way to achieve peace on earth is through abolishing religion. This is why he is so feverent and i admit, a ,bit bitter, in addition to having people of much less intellect fail to understand basic concepts and appreciate the lack of logic in their convictions. I appreciate the social work the church does but it is not exclusive to the church. Athiests are driven to help the human race as much as anyone else.At the end of the day, i have many friends who are religious and i love them all and have no reason to criticise their faith because they are happy and content to visit their own church in their own time. A problem with religion is the forcing of it down peoples throats and the clouding of the important barrier between religion and politics. This forces Atheists to speak out for the sake of everybody who doesnt have to follow a particular brand of religion or subscribe to fundamentalist ideals.
- Posted by: Mohawkman on July 20, 2007 9:54 AM
I guess Peter you will just have to invite Jesus in and become born-again. Without The Holy Spirit The Word of God can sometimes, to the “fallen, carnal man”, appear to be just a record of old scrolls etc. Why dont we all just sit back and watch as future history unfolds. Wars, earthquakes, famines and disease…all on the increase (Luke chapter 21). Crime soon out of control (2 Timothy 3). The appearance of an ID/marking system for the right hand or forehead which we are not to take by-the-way (Revelation 13:16-18/14:9-11). Its all happening. China is! building for the outward march to Armageddon. She is the lead nation in the asian confederacy army known as “the kings from the east”. Watch what she does later on. PS: I feel sorry for most of the humanists. When it finally clicks that God has been in Control of mans history all along, it is going to be so shattering to many their minds will be blown away. Sad days for the humanists and the athiest coming up. Personally shattering days.
- Posted by: G.Gibson on July 20, 2007 11:46 AM
What a waste of a life for you G.Gibson. Seems you have spent so much of it with such a negative outlook. You have by passed all my queries because you have no answer. Did you think about these questions? Or did you conveniently bypass them as any answer or lack of would be detrimental to your arguement? I feel very sorry for you and wish i could have a one-on-one chat with you in a coffee shop so we can discuss this in person. We can then debate a little more realistically.The “fallen carnal man”? Carnal instincts are amongst our strongest and most important of all. Why is carnal activity a sin? Does this mean all living creatures including other mammals, birds and reptiles will all go to hell because sex is one of their primary instincts and they act upon it? Once again, it appears the Bible and religious rules are another by-product of man’s obsession with himself. We are at a molecular level, mammals with quite poor physical abilities compared to many other creatures on the planet.
All creatures have their own advantages and disadvantages over a another. Some can fly. Some can see clearly in the dark. Some can run incredibly fast. Some can hold their breath underwater for days at a time. Human beings have the advantage of a larger and more developed brain which gives us the benefit to design and build more advanced structures and tools, have the ability of foresight and numerous other things. And it gives us greater development of ideas, including the use and perhaps creation of religion to control a human being and his instincts. Feel free to keep talking here or email me: peteraratcliff@hotmail.com
- Posted by: Mohawkman on July 20, 2007 12:57 PM
I guess you asked too many questions Mohawkman for me to fully answer all. Sorry about that. Im pretty burned out these days so I gave the best I could. Carnal behaviour is sin when we scamble over others or lie to obtain our goals. When we pick up porn and defile our bodies. When we get drunk and abuse others. When we lie to cover-up. On and on it goes…such is carnal behaviour. Survival of the fittest is humanist evolution stuff. Its such rubbish to born-again christians. We go to Christ for our needs and He Provides them according to His Will. The whole world is a fallen world this is why animals etc prey on each other. Sadly men too. The original peace and harmony that existed in the Garden at Eden is lost (thus the expression Paradise Lost). It went when Adam and Eve ate the fruit they were told not to. Its not complex. All Holy Spirit christians believe this because The Holy Sprit confirms the truth. Man just doesnt want to admit he is a sinner so he can pleasure around all his days and not have to worry about a Judgment after death. Yet the Judgment comes. I remember a pastor from the US called Mary K. Baxter (shes on the net somewhere). One night Jesus apppeared at the end of her bed and for the next 40 nights He did the same and took her down into the pits of hell each night to show her how real hell was. It has two arms and two legs like a man might with millions of individual pits and in each one there was a spirit and a soul that looked like a skeleton with flames slowly moving up over the body and each skeleton was dressed in rags and most were mentally unstable by this time and constantly calling to God for help. At the end of the 40 nights Mary went out from her house and across America and preached in church after church and many wayward pastors and congregationalists came back to The Lord. Marys revelation is only one of innumerable you can find if you look up Judgment, as are there many about how wonderful Heaven is for the born-againer who knows Jesus Christ because he has recived Jesus Christ. I think WE WOULD ALL do well to allow a little room in our hearts for the truth that the Word of God has for us… a little room to just perhaps believe that God is wrapping up human history and just perhaps we should be open to that fact. Im sorry to have to say it to the reader but there wont be any great, golden planet hopping future with Star Trek starships and anti-gravity cities floating above the earth. NASA is deluded oh so terribly. What the future holds lies entirely within John’s Revelation…the final book of the Holy Bible. Look each day….we kill each other a little more. We crush each other a little more. We fail to govern ourselves a little more. Mans not long for earth thats why we need a Saviour. Praise The Lord…He will be back soon. And Im just one of hundreds of millions of christians saying it because the Holy Spirit in us confirms it.
- Posted by: G. Gibson on July 20, 2007 6:13 PM